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opa 627bp in MHZS cd33

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superwhite 發表於 2006-11-3 17:16:54 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi viewer,

will get the BG NH 100uf 160V for replace with the rubycon light blue cap at the power supply circuit, you think got much improvement, it look like the power supply for the tube very important. any comment?

Thanks for sharing
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-3 22:12:05 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

I agreed with you.
go ahead !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 00:23:17 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi viewer,

Thanks for advice, will get this cap first thing in the morning.... :wink:

next week will have few friend to gether to try on own cd player, will have shanling, cambridge audio n bada, hope my cdp got time to run in the BG cap
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 10:01:46 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

wish you mod will be success.
I think you modified MHZS CD33 will win more with your friend's cdp.

I wouild like to know have  you get the OPA 627.
I suggect you replace the two caps behind the tube to Black gate Non polar
e-cap 10uf/50v (red colour). at that time, it must win others much !!!!!!!!!!
Ha Ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please let me know the result of competition and send the photos for sharing.

Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 13:34:56 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi viewer,

Thanks viewer, but my main point is not win, i want to share some MOD experience to other so that some friend will start MOD their CDP also. it wil have fun if everyone MOD their CDP(can know every cdp after MOd sound) :wink:  

today try to get the BG cap, the diyshop not open*#@$*^ (maybe i went there too early : ) will get it next week loh.

i want to change the BG N 10uf 50V but since i got the 10uf 100V use first loh, if not wasted...

the OPA627..... :cry: i still waiting. :cry: dont know when, if have also maybe like pic (with 2 tiny BG cap also)


anyway, how your CDP ? any update PIC after so long MOD :wink:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 16:00:10 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

I will send the pic to you later, because I am in office.

MHZS CD33 sound is better your friends' base no no modification. If their cdp are under HK$5,000.
becuase I have listened the said CDP's  before I brought CD33.
the sound of Your cdp up to now = HK$7,000.00.
If got the opa 627 same of the said photo. the sound = HK$13,000.00's cdp.

Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 16:23:36 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:322f9d7c5a="viewer"]Hi superwhite,

I will send the pic to you later, because I am in office.

MHZS CD33 sound is better your friends' base no no modification. If their cdp are under HK$5,000.
becuase I have listened the said CDP's  before I brought CD33.
the sound of Your cdp up to now = HK$7,000.00.
If got the opa 627 same of the said photo. the sound = HK$13,000.00's cdp.

Thanks.[/quote]

Hi viewer,

we wait for your CDP PIC :wink:

hope like you said after install the OPA627    but have to wait, long..........

Want to ask you something, do you think solid stage CDP easy to MOD? any big different if MOD? :roll:

i want to change the inside power cable, any suggestion? silver or copper? single core or multi core? what is the diameter of the cable( mm)? planning to use copper 1.2mm single core, UPOCC cable. is this suitable?


Thanks for sharing. :wink:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 16:42:53 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

It is very easy to mod with opa627.
1. de-solder the OPA2604 from the pcb broad.
2. add IC base or direct to solder the OPA627 set on the PCB broad.

2 is better than 1, but 1 is convience for replace other opa. e.g AD797, OPA134, OPA111 OPA128 etc.

quick quick to modifity it  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If mod, the different is = you buy a cpd for the sum HK$15,000.

I wait hearing from you the result of mod is same as I said.

Thanks for sharing.

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superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 17:01:54 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi viewer,

:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  op627 stock not arrived :cry:  :cry:  :cry:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 17:20:34 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

Any opa (singale channel) in  audio shop of you place, may let me know to sharing.


Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 17:28:25 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:3837bf9dfa="viewer"]Hi superwhite,

Any opa (singale channel) in  audio shop of you place, may let me know to sharing.


Thanks.[/quote]

Hi viewer,

i already book the opa627, but the only problem is the PCB is not arrived(bcoz their ask local factory make for them) have to wait, maybe next week or 2 more week from now...... :cry:  :cry:  :cry: thanks viewer, but i want the opa627 :wink:
h3d 發表於 2006-11-4 17:55:35 | 顯示全部樓層

NICE

About 8 months ago I took a change on buying a CD33 as well. Nobody overhere (Holland) knew the player, so that is always very exiting.

After some tuberolling (CBS5670, GE5670, some Russian 6n3P and WE396a) I got the player modified. The only part we modified was the endtrap. Actually everyting from the DAC onwards.

Of course we replaced some elko's and so on, but the most important change was taking out the OPAMP all together. Over here is a modifier that has very good results with taking out OPAMPs. You just replace it with a few resistances (not the right word I think) of 5 and 50 K. With this mod. the player sounded very open, wide, deep and balanced.

After this I also bought some Russian tubes that were Cryogenically treated. All together I'm very happy now.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 18:06:27 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi h3d,

how in holland?

i still waiting for my OPA627 :wink:

Thanks for sharing, any update pic that can share with us n also the MOD process?  :wink:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 18:24:10 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

If you want got opa627 and its base with black gate 0.1uf early you can buy it
from HK. the web sit :

e.g. http://vocativeaudio.com/

opa 627ap HK$65 each
      627bp HK$75 each
      627am hk$130 each
IC base  HK$10 each

e.g.http://www.diykits.com.hk/

Thanks.
h3d 發表於 2006-11-4 18:45:46 | 顯示全部樓層

sun is shining.

All is nice in Holland. Winter is setting in (10 degrees C).

I'll see what I can do about pictures. I have a electrical drawing for anyone that is interested.

My message is: get rid of opamps!
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 19:00:14 | 顯示全部樓層
Thanks for all advice n info........

already book the opa627 is time to wait loh..... :wink:

have to support a bit on local DIY shop, if not later close down, no more DIY shop here in Malaysia :  :  :  :  (the only DIY shop in here)
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-4 20:40:24 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:101244c12c="superwhite"]Hi viewer,

Thanks for advice, will get this cap first thing in the morning.... :wink:

next week will have few friend to gether to try on own cd player, will have shanling, cambridge audio n bada, hope my cdp got time to run in the BG cap [/quote]

Superwhite,
Wei!! when is the gathering, where and what time?? i'm interested t join if time &  place match...
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-4 20:45:08 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi, H3D!!

May i know what the tube model/detail of the russian tube u bought? what the differences when compare to WE 396A & GE 5670?? How much u bought the russian tube?

Try to provide the photo of the tube ok?

Thanks

Superwhite,
if u decided to change to red blackgate the sell me 2nd hand std blackgate loh : )
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 20:46:53 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi superwhite,

My final modified MHZS CD33 photo is enclosed.

Thanks.
h3d 發表於 2006-11-4 20:50:50 | 顯示全部樓層

some pics

I've just made some pics. Enjoy.

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h3d 發表於 2006-11-4 20:53:13 | 顯示全部樓層

cryo tubes for cd 33

Hi

Just saw your question. Here is the ebaylink: http://cgi.ebay.de/PAIR-CRYO-6N3P-DR-Hi-Fi-TUBE-VALVE-2C51-5670_W0QQitemZ280043801078QQihZ018QQcategoryZ39997QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm very satisfied.

Have fun.
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 21:02:57 | 顯示全部樓層
hi superwhite,

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/viewer_2006/P1010010.jpg
h3d 發表於 2006-11-4 21:10:59 | 顯示全部樓層
Look nice viewer. Sound is great i presume?
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 21:49:46 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi h3d,
you say you have a electrical drawing, would you mind to post it for sharing.

Thank you so much.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 21:50:21 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi h3d,

Wah! vantage vitaminQ, good stuff , but why you make a bridge? what is your opamp no.?

Hi viewer,

wah! also nice!

here so update picture....




more to come next month...... :wink:

Thanks for sharing.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 21:53:45 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi WINDWSS,

will call you once confirm, dont worry, will ask you to bring CDP also :wink:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-4 22:53:53 | 顯示全部樓層
hi superwhite,

very nice. sound must very good now.


thanks
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-4 23:27:42 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi viewer,

Thanks, now my CDP improve on midrange n bass alot! now another problem coming, too booming from the speaker.....   but still acceptable. :wink:
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-5 07:41:22 | 顯示全部樓層
hi superwhite,

I think that is the opq2604 problem, because bass of 2604 is not clear.
when replace to opq627 will be ok !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-5 16:49:06 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:cbd5443327="viewer"]hi superwhite,

I think that is the opq2604 problem, because bass of 2604 is not clear.
when replace to opq627 will be ok !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks.[/quote]

Hi viewer,

Great!    hope can try opa627 soon, bcoz the bass now strong, but blur(cant know the bass location) have to call the diyshop for the stock arrived.....

I have check on the Voltage for the 10uf 100V cap that you ask me to change to BG N 10uf 50V, the reading on the multimeter is 52.8V, is this o.k for BG N cap?

Thanks.
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-5 17:57:48 | 顯示全部樓層
hi superwhite,

all e-cap have extral 10% to 15% votlage. So it is no problem.
so the pcb broad is marked 10uf/50v.
Is it really 52.8v.


Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-5 18:04:41 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:f3941c9ade="viewer"]hi superwhite,

all e-cap have extral 10% to 15% votlage. So it is no problem.
so the pcb broad is marked 10uf/50v.
Is it really 52.8v.


Thanks.[/quote]

Hi viewer,

yes, yesterday i find out using digital multimeter, but you can try it out, maybe you got different reading? :wink:  since the cap have 10% extra should be o.k lah, dont worry :wink:
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-6 14:47:53 | 顯示全部樓層

Re: NICE

[quote:6ab75f107a="h3d"]About 8 months ago I took a change on buying a CD33 as well. Nobody overhere (Holland) knew the player, so that is always very exiting.

After some tuberolling (CBS5670, GE5670, some Russian 6n3P and WE396a) I got the player modified. The only part we modified was the endtrap. Actually everyting from the DAC onwards.

Of course we replaced some elko's and so on, but the most important change was taking out the OPAMP all together. Over here is a modifier that has very good results with taking out OPAMPs. You just replace it with a few resistances (not the right word I think) of 5 and 50 K. With this mod. the player sounded very open, wide, deep and balanced.

After this I also bought some Russian tubes that were Cryogenically treated. All together I'm very happy now.[/quote]

h3d,
U mean u will remove the opamp right? but your photo still have the opamp on it, do u bypass it or?
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-6 14:49:12 | 顯示全部樓層
Dear all,

Just to check if the original cap is 2200uF, can i replace with 2300uF? any bad consequences?
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-6 15:37:20 | 顯示全部樓層
hi windwss,

normally, e-cp has +- 20% of value so 2300uf replace is no problem.
don't replace a double value of original e-cap.


thanks.
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-6 17:32:26 | 顯示全部樓層
thanks viewer,

For nichicon ecap, which series is consider audio grade? VX? PF??
 樓主| viewer 發表於 2006-11-6 20:49:50 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi windwss,

For nichicon ecap, muse and kz is for audio.
Top is KZ second is muse.


Thanks.
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-6 20:54:28 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi WINDWSS,

The best still Black Gate, no need to think about other ecap, bcoz you cant find any other audio grade cap over here.... . But it good that you no need to think alot, just think about Black Gate enough.....  :wink: , now just think about black gate........ , will get some BG cap tomolo to start MOD..... :wink:
h3d 發表於 2006-11-7 01:30:59 | 顯示全部樓層

bypass

Hi Windwws and others

Indeed I bypassed the opamp. No need to cut it out all together.

:

I'm posting the drawing. It's the drawing of one chanel. A friend of mine will make a drawing showing the old and new electrical circuit.

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h3d 發表於 2006-11-7 01:33:25 | 顯示全部樓層

to be sure

Hi Superwhite,

To be sure I'll say it again: I don't use any opamp in de cdp. Try it in an old CDP and check it out!
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-7 11:08:19 | 顯示全部樓層
[quote:2aa0e10216="viewer"]Hi superwhite,

It dosen't matter. I enjoy to sharing to diy friends.
I have not  idea william sir carry the RIKEN RMG resistor or not but you can ask him. 1/2w in HK cost around $10 to $15 each.

Hi windwss,

I have try parallel some caps in outup like you say.
they will made the foucs of sound not good.
I really recomment that If you used famous cap e.g Jensen, Mitil cap, Music cap, Ero, audiocap, rel-cap etc. no need to parallel other small caps. (wast money no gain).
If you used solen (lower speed caps) just parallel 0.1uf is very great.

You can try for diy fun. and let me the result.
Thanks.[/quote]

viewer,
u r right! i had test to use 3 cap parallel, elna 100uf, efd 01.uf & ERO KP1836, 0.22uF---> result not so good, high detail slightly more but too bright, sound stage slightlyblur/compress less open...
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-7 11:14:36 | 顯示全部樓層
SUPERWHITE,

Help me to study the diagram given by h3d since ur electronics background is bettre, i'm interested to try his way : )

i shall foillow ur advice to change to BG for the small ecap 1st.
Is the BG standard series & NH series price a lot difference?
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-7 13:46:41 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi,

Finally i received my 2c5a tube today after waiting for > 1 months.

Attach the pic for u all, the build is so so will see the sound ok not....
from left: Bendix, united elctronic & tong-sol used tube.

Superwhite,

Eh! how the sound quality and charactheristic of octave brand film/foil cap compare to solen? thinking to go for cheap and nice 10uF tin foilcap...

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SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-7 16:40:27 | 顯示全部樓層
hi all,

i check in internect say that by pass the muting transistor can give a more real sound anybody had try it? the best is replace the transistor with relay.

CD-player modification
Below are part of the article:

The first ......The best : costs $0.00
After the D/A converter you can find components for filtering, (to reduce ultrasonic garbage), buffering (to obtain low enough (typical 100-2k) output impedance) and muting. In almost any budget CD_player (below fl.1500 (~$900)) muting is performed with bipolar transistors. THIS REALLY SUCKS !!! More expensive players use relays for this job. Manufacturers apply muting to prevent "plopping sounds" while switching on/off. The audio circuit is temporarily short-circuited during on/off switching. When just playing music they do nothing at all! Nothing ?............., NO WAY, it alters the perceived sound. Why ? I remembered this explanation : a transistor has a small paricitic capacitance. The value is depending of the voltage from collector to emitter, i.e. your audio signal. The result : a signal dependent high-cut filter in your CD player. (ironic) Thank you so much : Marantz, Philips, Technics, Denon, Harman Kardon, Pioneer, Sony, Teac etc etc. Have they ever actually listened to their budget stuff ?! I can't imagine. Maybe they do apply muting transistors to give their more expansive one's a bigger lead and better sales. This would really suck !! (in my humble opinion)

I am not satisfied with this explanation : If you actually calculate the parasitic capacitance it is too small to hvae effect in the audio band. I hope to find a better more detalied explanation soon !

Check Audio en techniek for the source of this tweak.

The more expensive models use relays, so the manufactures are aware, but fail to pass the benefits to you.

I own a Marantz CD 52 MK2. After removing the muting transistors I noticed (warning : vague audiophile terms appear here) , a more fluently sound, less stress and more clarity, especially in female voices. Yes there are some plops to detect while switching on/off. This doesn't hurt my amp or speakers. (Unless : very high volume setting.). I am very pleased with this tweak. It is the best I ever encountered. It kept me from spending (too much) cash on audio en have left me more for music.

There has been some discusion on this bit in some newsgroups.

Goto : Deja News

and search with the keywords : muting transistors

or the keywords : CD Improvement Worked

click old

the : view thread is very usefull
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-7 18:13:31 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi WINDWSS,

WAH, you got your new toy now, good, pls let us know the sound of each tube. :wink: .

for the h3d drawing..... eh.... i have pass back all my knowledge to my lecturer....hehehe..... : but will try my best to understand.

For the RELAY isu.... i dont think is a best way for CDP like us, because we all using TUBE , the POP sound is loud if we take out the relay, n we all know that the simplest the curcuit is still the best, bcause the more component in the CDP the more noise it can be created.   so.....
it just my 2cent :wink:

Got my new BG cap today, 100uf 160v BG NH series, good result, look like the vocal sound more loud.... :wink:  got to run in more...
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-7 18:28:29 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi h3d,

:shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

no OPAMP! you are genius man!
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-7 18:31:07 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi WINDWSS,

Dont think got different on the Octave cap n solen cap, price almost same. :wink:  if can, then go for Mundorf loh...... :wink:
superwhite 發表於 2006-11-7 19:59:58 | 顯示全部樓層
Hi h3d,

did you try on the WE396A with cryogenically treated? look like sound good.
SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-8 09:36:36 | 顯示全部樓層
hi viewer,

need ur advice, if i change the 100uF/50v Elna silmic e-cap near teh output to Blackgate N series non polarization ecap will it better than (SCR solen +0.1 wima black box)? since the cost is similar....


superwhite & viewer,

i'm a bit confuse when i check the voltage across teh 2 cap-100uf/100v rubycon ecap on power board (refer picture), voltage is <10V, if that's teh case i can use 100uF/50v blackgate ecap on this... i use the multimeter & place the probe on the 2 pin of the ecap, both cap give similar value.... as such i'm wondering whether i'm measure correctly?

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SSWONG 發表於 2006-11-8 09:46:40 | 顯示全部樓層
Regarding the 3 tubes, i had roughly test only, my 1st impression is that 1 like both tung-sol & bendix compare to GE JAN 5670W.

Both have better transparency & better detail & faster than GE, it may not be as sweet/warm as GE but i like them.

if compare tung-sol & bendix, tungsol is lighter, faster more detail on mid to high whereas bendix more emphasis mid to low (the bass is tight & punchy).

Anyway my both bendix tube look difference- 1 is written as JAN-CEA-2C51 FOLIPSE-PIONEER or ECLIPSE-PIONEER (the word is blur) another is written as JAN-CEA-2C51 bendix. So i'm not sure it is teh same since supplier both from bendix.
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